In this episode, I sit down with Robbie Kroger, founder of Blood Origins, for an insightful and wide-ranging conversation about wildlife conservation, hunting ethics, and our complex relationships with nature. Robbie, originally from South Africa, shares his passion for wildlife and environmental conservation, exploring how these experiences shaped his views on hunting and its role in modern society. We dive into controversial topics like wolf reintroduction, the ethics of hunting, and the challenges facing conservation efforts today, offering a nuanced look at sustainable wildlife management.

Key Takeaways:

• Robbie’s Conservation Journey: Robbie's passion for conservation began in South Africa, inspired by a fascination with wildlife and wetlands during a visit to the Okavango Delta. His experiences led him to pursue environmental science and eventually earn a PhD in wetland ecology.

• Complexity of Wolf Reintroduction: Wolf reintroduction in Colorado is a highly complex issue involving multiple stakeholders. While Robbie supports reintroducing predators to restore ecosystems, he stresses the need for responsible management, including hunting as a tool to maintain balance.

• Wetlands as Ecosystem "Kidneys": Robbie describes wetlands as the "kidneys of the landscape" due to their role in filtering water and supporting biodiversity. He advocates for conservation efforts like mitigation banks to balance development and ecological preservation.

• The Cougar Hunting Paradox in California: California's ban on cougar hunting has led to more mountain lions being killed through depredation permits than were previously hunted. This highlights the unintended consequences of well-intentioned policies, illustrating the complexities of wildlife management.

• Is Hunting Really Conservation?: Robbie provides a nuanced perspective on hunting's role in conservation, emphasizing that while hunting can support population control and generate conservation funds, it is not always directly synonymous with conservation. Intent and context are crucial.

• Experience as a Catalyst for Conservation: Robbie believes that immersive experiences in nature foster a strong conservation ethic. Personal connections to the outdoors inspire people to invest in and protect natural spaces, which aligns with By Land's mission.

• Social Media and the Perception of Hunting: Social media has amplified negative perceptions of hunting by taking traditional hunting imagery out of context. Robbie calls for more responsible storytelling that highlights the broader experience and respect for wildlife.

• Concerns about "Digital Market Hunting": Robbie raises concerns about individuals leveraging hunting purely for profit, without genuine conservation motives. He advocates for sincerity and integrity in hunting stories to positively influence public perception.

Robbie's Journey into Conservation

Robbie’s journey into wildlife conservation began in South Africa, where he grew up with a deep fascination for wildlife. Like many boys in South Africa, he dreamed of becoming a game ranger—the person driving a Land Rover through the bush, showing people the wonders of the natural world. This passion took root during a visit to the Okavango Delta in Botswana when he was 16 years old. He described the experience as transformative: “I fell in love with the swamps, the water, the reeds, the mud, the wildlife, and the fish. It was all so raw and beautiful.”

This early love for wetlands led Robbie to pursue environmental science, where he focused on restoration ecology, conservation biology, and wetland ecology. He completed his studies in South Africa before moving to the United States to earn a PhD in wetland ecology and aquatic biogeochemistry. His scientific background provides a unique perspective on conservation, blending academic knowledge with hands-on experience in some of the most biodiverse places on Earth.

The Complexity of Wolf Reintroduction

One of the most engaging parts of our conversation centered around the reintroduction of wolves in Colorado. Robbie emphasized the complexity of wolf reintroduction, acknowledging that there is no simple answer. “If somebody has a single answer for a question around wolves, they’re wrong. It’s a nuanced, super complicated, super complex issue,” he said. He explained how reintroducing wolves can be a laudable goal but comes with significant costs and responsibilities, particularly in terms of balancing various stakeholders’ interests—hunters, conservationists, ranchers, and the general public.

Robbie pointed out that humans and wolves share a unique affinity because both are alpha predators, which might explain the polarized views people have about them. He argued for responsible management and said that hunting as a management tool should be part of the conversation. “When reintroduced populations grow, management—which includes hunting—is crucial to maintaining balance,” he added, underscoring the importance of practical and sustainable management.

Wetlands: The Kidneys of the Landscape

Another topic Robbie is deeply passionate about is wetland conservation. Growing up in South Africa, he developed a fascination with wetlands during a visit to the Okavango Delta, and it led him to pursue a career in environmental science. Robbie described wetlands as “the kidneys of the landscape” because of their crucial role in cleaning water and supporting biodiversity. “Wetlands take bad water and clean it through different processes, creating good water,” he said.

We also discussed the challenges of wetland conservation, particularly in regions undergoing rapid development. Robbie explained the concept of mitigation banks, where developers offset the destruction of wetlands by creating or restoring wetlands elsewhere. He admitted it’s not a perfect system but argued it’s the best available option for balancing development and conservation.

The Cougar Hunting Paradox in California

Robbie also shared an interesting perspective on cougar management in California, highlighting a paradox that has emerged since the ban on hunting mountain lions was implemented in 1972. The intent of the ban was to protect the species, but it led to unintended consequences. “Today, more mountain lions are killed through depredation permits and contract killings than were ever taken by hunters before the ban,” Robbie explained.

This paradox highlights the complexities of wildlife management, especially in areas with growing human populations and urban expansion into wildlife habitats. Robbie emphasized that without regulated hunting, the state now pays contractors to remove mountain lions that pose a threat to humans or livestock.

Previously, licensed hunters would pay the state to hunt these animals, providing both population control and financial support for conservation efforts. “It’s a classic example of well-intentioned legislation having the opposite effect of what was intended,” Robbie added, pointing out the challenges of managing wildlife populations in a landscape that is constantly changing due to human activities.

Is Hunting Really Conservation?

The conversation naturally turned to the often-repeated phrase, “Hunting is conservation.” Robbie offered a nuanced perspective, challenging the simplicity of that statement. “Directly, hunting isn’t always conservation,” he said, explaining that while hunting can contribute to population control and management, the broader conservation impact comes indirectly through financial support, habitat preservation, and community benefits.

Robbie stressed that intent matters—hunting purely for entertainment isn’t conservation. However, in certain contexts, like removing invasive species or managing overpopulated deer herds, hunting directly contributes to conservation. He shared an example of how hunters in the United States fund conservation efforts through taxes and fees that support habitat restoration and wildlife management.

The Role of Personal Experience in Conservation

Throughout the conversation, Robbie and I discussed the importance of personal experiences in fostering a conservation ethic. Robbie believes that deep, immersive experiences in nature, whether through hunting, hiking, or exploring, create a lasting bond with the environment. “When people have meaningful experiences outdoors, they are more likely to invest their time, energy, and resources into protecting those places,” he noted. This sentiment resonates deeply with my own experiences on the Pacific Crest Trail and in the backcountry—it’s those moments of connection that inspire a lifelong commitment to the outdoors.

Hunting, Social Media, and Changing Perceptions

We also tackled the evolving perception of hunting in today’s society, particularly how social media plays a role. Robbie pointed out that the traditional way hunters communicate—sharing photos of their success—was never intended for a mass audience. In the age of social media, these images are often taken out of context, leading to negative perceptions of hunting. He called for more responsible storytelling that emphasizes the experience, connection, and respect for wildlife, rather than just the trophy.

Robbie also touched on the idea of “digital market hunting,” where individuals leverage hunting content purely for profit, often without genuine conservation motives. He expressed concern about this trend, emphasizing the need for sincerity and integrity in how hunting stories are told.

Conclusion

This conversation with Robbie Kroger was both enlightening and thought-provoking. From the intricacies of wolf reintroduction to the vital role of wetlands and the ethics of hunting, Robbie challenges us to think critically about conservation and our place within the natural world. His emphasis on an experience-based connection to nature aligns perfectly with what I hope to foster through By Land—an authentic relationship with the outdoors that inspires action and stewardship.

For more about Robbie and Blood Origins, be sure to check out the links below. They're doing crucial work in advocating for nuanced and thoughtful approaches to wildlife conservation and sustainable management.

Emory, By Land

Thanks for stopping by! If you have any questions for me or want to connect, you can leave a comment below or shoot me a personal message at emory@byland.co.

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